In a special extended interview, Minister for Māori Development, Broadcasting, and Media Willie Jackson discusses housing, homelessness, Māori broadcasting, and his political future.
Labour MP Willie Jackson has described the Kiritapu Allan saga as "maybe the saddest thing I've ever seen".
Jackson, the manager for Labour's campaign to win the Māori seats at this year's election in October, told Mata he was planning to spend Wednesday with the former minister of justice.
"We talk every couple of days, but heartbreaking stuff, you know what I mean?" he told host Mihingarangi Forbes.
"We love Kiritapu, I know I do and my family does. She's a bit of a hero for my daughter, for a lot of young women, you know?"
Allan resigned all her ministerial portfolios in July after being charged with careless use of a motor vehicle and refusing to accompany a police officer following a car crash in Wellington. She had returned a breath test over the legal limit, but at a level only considered an infringement offence.
Listen to the full episode of Mata
The incident capped off a difficult few months for the East Coast MP, following allegations of bullying, a controversial speech made at a farewell party for an RNZ employee she was engaged to, then the split from her fiancé, and taking time away from Parliament on mental health leave.
"I've never seen anything quite like it," Jackson said of the car crash.
Mihingarangi Forbes with Willie Jackson. Photo: Mata
"We've never seen a justice minister get into this kind of trouble. But it doesn't take away the fact that she's got huge talent, she's passionate, a wonderful young woman.
Allan remains the MP for East Coast, but will not contest the election in October. Jackson did not believe the charges meant the end of her political career.
"As I kept saying to her, 'You're only 39.' I've lived my life around people who have come back in terms of redemption. Kiritapu can do anything - she's a great entertainer, a lot of fun, she's a strong advocate. She's actually brilliant in that legal area - I've loved working with her in Parliament because she can break down all the intricacies, so well. Some of us do the fronting and all that, but man, can Kiritapu break stuff down.
"I have to say in terms of my political life, it's maybe the saddest thing I've ever seen, in terms of what's happened to her. But that doesn't take away our friendship and my commitment to her, so I'm going to enjoy some time with her."
Allan's absence arguably weakened Māori representation in the upper echelons of the Labour Party list, with just Willow Jean-Prime the only wahine Māori in the top 20, and Labour likely to return with far fewer MPs than the party has at present.
Jackson pointed out Jo Luxton was ranked 19th, Forbes noting that Luxton herself said she felt like a "fraud" being included in the Māori caucus.
Jackson then mentioned some wahine Māori standing for Labour were only contesting electorate seats, including Cushla Tangaere-Manuel, up against former Labour MP Meka Whaitiri in Ikaroa-Rāwhiti. Whaitiri ditched Labour for Te Pāti Māori in May.
Willie Jackson. Photo: Mata
"Our Māori women representation is strong - Soraya Peke-Mason, current list MP] made a decision not to come on the list, Cushla Tangaere-Manuel made a decision not to come on the list, and Cushla would have been right up there too.
"She just wants to take Meka straight on, she just wants a straight scrap with Meka. I think it's going to be really good to watch how that goes."
Minister of Foreign Affairs Nanaia Mahuta also took herself off the list, and would have been in the top 10, he said. There were four Māori men in Labour's top 20 - Jackson himself, Adrian Rurawhe, Kelvin Davis and Peeni Henare.
Wahine Māori in Parliament
Forbes asked Jackson if Parliament was a safe place for wahine Māori.
"I don't know if it's safe for anyone, to tell you the truth," he replied.
"But if you're asking me, do Māori women cop it probably worse than anyone? I would agree with that. I watched the treatment of… Nanaia Mahuta, and I think she went through things that were unforgivable. That's not so much from people in there - people in there were generally quite good to her. But some of the rubbish she got from the outside were terrible… shocking…
"Marama Davidson's the same thing, Meteria Turei, you can go back to Sandra Lee, all the way through, Tariana (Turia, former Labour MP turned Te Pāti Māori founder)."
Jackson was highly critical of ACT leader David Seymour, who called for an urgent debate on her resignation the next day, then used his time to criticise the government on other matters, such as crime and other former Cabinet ministers.
"I was shocked. We were angry actually at David Seymour, but he doesn't care. It's about winning votes for him."
No retirement planned
As for his own future in politics, Jackson would not be drawn on whether he would retire from Parliament should Labour lose.
"We'll see. I'm not contemplating us losing the election... I'm going out to win the election - I'm the campaign manager for Māori, for all the seven seats, so we are going out to win the election.
"Look, we're right in the race, despite what these people are saying, 'it's all over'. There's only 3 percent between the blocs… we're a real chance, a real opportunity, and I'm fixed on winning. So I'm not worried about what I'm doing after the election."
Other topics the pair discussed included Māori homelessness and housing poverty, the state of the "unfair" tax system, perpetual leases on Māori land, pay parity in Kōhanga Reo, Māori broadcasting and the scrapped TVNZ and RNZ merger.
Photo: Te Māngai Pāho
Photo: supplied