Looking back on his 35 years as a Member of Parliament, former Speaker Trevor Mallard says it was mostly enjoyable while admitting he has made more than his fair share of mistakes in politics.
Trevor Mallard left his position as Speaker to take up a posting as New Zealand's ambassador to Ireland. Photo: RNZ / Rebekah Parsons-King
He will soon take up a three-year posting in Dublin as New Zealand's second resident ambassador to Ireland.
Mallard has been elected as a presiding officer of the Parliament three times unopposed.
He has had a colourful political career, and no more so than recently - making false rape allegations and criticism over his management of February's parliamentary grounds protests, which saw him turn the sprinklers on the occupiers.
Mallard was Speaker from 2017 until 2022, and before that was a Cabinet minister in the fifth Labour Government 1999 to 2008.
'I was preparing for a valedictory speech when the decision was made' - Listen to the full Saturday Morning interview with Trevor Mallard here
Speaking to Kim Hill, Mallard said he could understand why Ben Thomas in The Spinoff would describe him as "like a bully who seemed incapable of moderation or restraint".
"I also understand why people who know me better know that there's a private Trevor and a public Trevor and sometimes the public Trevor is not quite the sort of person that the private Trevor would prefer to be. I've made more than my fair share of mistakes in politics, that's for sure."
Parliament was a less negative place than it used to be, but "every now and then there is a reversion", Mallard said.
"I think people are not as keen on the negative stuff as they used to be and if they see people whose objective is to take scalps rather than change policies and make the country better, I think that while in the past that would have been a positive thing, it's now a negative thing."
Mallard said he strongly disagreed with accusations made against him by Hamilton West MP Gaurav Sharma.
Sharma told Parliament on Wednesday he had approached Mallard seeking legal support and was told complaining about his colleagues would end his career.
But Mallard said did not agree with that description of the meeting.
"All that I'll say on that is that our views of the meeting are very different and that I was concerned for his welfare."
First day in Parliament
Mallard said he could remember his first day walking down the corridor in Parliament because Sir Robert Muldoon was coming the other way.
"But what made it most memorable was that my then two-year-old daughter pointed her finger at him and said 'Daddy Daddy, there's piggy Muldoon' ... that's exactly what she said.
"He was very generous and said 'what's your name little girl'."
Mallard described Muldoon as a "mixed bag" saying although he could be very funny on occasions backbenchers got a clear message not to interject when Muldoon was on his feet because he was very sharp and his retorts could be pretty nasty.
Regrets, I've had a few
Mallard said he was mostly happy to have gone into politics, although he may have been a better parliamentarian if he had started later or left the career earlier.
Six years in Hamilton and then being part of a backbench supporting David Lange, then Geoffrey Palmer and then Mike Moore was a good education "in how to do some things really well and some things really badly".
"I think for me 30 was probably a bit young to do it."
The other alternative would have been to shorten his career in 2008 or 2009, Mallard said.
Both he and Annette King decided to retire in 2017, but she managed to leave first.
"I thought having the two most senior people in the caucus go at the same time would look like rats from a sinking ship, because of course you know Andrew [Little] was leader at the time and our polling was in the 20s and it wouldn't have been a good look."
Mallard only ran as a list MP in the 2017 election and did not expect to get in but Jacinda Ardern then became leader and things changed, he said.
Even then Mallard expected New Zealand First leader Winston Peters to go with National rather than Labour.
"I was preparing some notes for a valedictory speech when the decision was made that Labour would go into government and therefore I'd be Speaker."
Apology to Winston Peters
Mallard said he was ready to apologise to Winston Peters but time ran out.
On Thursday, the new Speaker Adrian Rurawhe formally apologised to Peters for a trespass order against him which would have stopped him entering the grounds of Parliament and its buildings.
That was the day after Mallard, who had issued the trespass order, resigned as Speaker.
But Mallard said he was sorry.
"My successor said sorry but I was all ready to say sorry but we couldn't, we couldn't quite get the agreement agreed to by Winston and his lawyers in time for it to be signed, sealed and delivered before I left the Speaker's role."
Mallard said he had a good relationship with Peters for most of his career.
"But obviously in recent times ... he wasn't that happy with being trespassed from Parliament and he's made that clear."
Why Ireland?
Mallard defends the decision to appoint him as the next Ambassador to Ireland.
National party leader Christopher Luxon and ACT leader David Seymour are both critical of Mallard's lack of diplomatic skills.
While Peters said the appointment was insulting to professional diplomats.
Mallard rejected the idea that politicians should not be taking diplomatic jobs.
"I think the question is 'can I do the job and can I do it well?' My experience is that some of the politicians that have been appointed to diplomatic posts or similar posts have been absolutely superb."
For example parliamentary experience has helped both Annette King who is currently New Zealand High Commissioner to Australia and Don McKinnon who was secretary-general of the Commonwealth, Mallard said.
Mallard said was "not starting from point zero" because he knew Ireland well and had three grandchildren who lived in Galway so had spent some time there.
As the only English speaking country in the European Union Ireland represented an important point of access for New Zealand, Mallard said.
Mallard's first visit to Ireland was in 1992.
"I've watched the country change, I've watched its politics and watched its people become more confident and more open," he said.
Ireland was a great opportunity, Mallard said.
"I think it's somewhere I can do some good and enjoy it as well."
The personal
On a personal level, letting his first marriage fall apart due to selfish behaviour in his early 50s was one of the stupidest things he had ever done, Mallard said.
It caused his family a lot of hurt, but he said he was lucky in recovering from that with his current wife journalist Jane Clifton.
Mallard said he and Clifton had been friends since the 1980s but what started as a plus-one relationship in terms of attending events became a deeper relationship.
"We got to know each other as friends before anything else developed."
The couple's two dogs, Violet and Jeeves, will be travelling with them to Ireland, Mallard said.
A republican ... eventually
Mallard said he would accept a knighthood if offered one, despite ultimately favouring a republic in New Zealand.
It did not seem right to have a monarch on the other side of the world, he said.
"But I spent years and years being Michael Cullen's expenditure review person, you know people had to come to me with their Budget bids and I was always looking for money.
"I'm pretty sure that changing to a presidential system, even if it was a sort of nominal president, change in the governor-general or something like Ireland's got would cost us well over $100 million and I've got better priorities for that sort of money at the moment."