Two child protection watchdogs have written to Oranga Tamariki asking it to spell out its rationale for cutting millions of dollars of contracts for services to children.
Their letter to its chief executive shows their worries at a lack of up-to-date data, at the basis for the cuts and at no guarantee of any stopgap measures to tide children over the transition.
The Children's Ministry is cutting millions of dollars from services it contracts externally, starting with $30m debated in a select committee during scrutiny week after May's Budget.
Some of the outside services claim children will be impacted badly.
The Chief Children's Commissioner and the Independent Children's Monitor say the ministry must produce the evidence behind its decisions.
Arran Jones, who heads the monitor, on Thursday wrote to OT chief executive Chappie Te Kani, saying:
"We now understand, as reported in the media, that you have cut the contracts for 190 providers, and reductions made to more than 142.
"As reported, this equates to savings of up to $139m on 2024/25, which is much greater than the $30m that Darrin [of OT] initially described, and what we understood to be the case."
They had met Darrin Haimoana in mid-July, when he was unable to give them useful data and modelling.
They went back by letter on 30 July, and for a second and third time in the last few days - but have not got what they want.
"I received a reply yesterday from one of the deputy chief executives, very high level, but I've gone back this morning again and reiterated that we want access to some of the documents in the decision making," Arran Jones, chief executive of the monitor body, told RNZ on Friday.
"We don't yet have the answers that we're looking for."
The Children's Minister Karen Chhour has strongly defended the cuts, saying this week the services being cut were those that were not working.
But Jones and the Children's Commissioner Dr Claire Achmad got the message at the mid-July meeting that the gauge for cuts was information in quarterly contract reports, "rather than an evaluation of the effectiveness of the service".
"It was unclear to us what overarching documentation was available to support the decisions that were made, for example, regional funding plans or a national strategy," their letter to Te Kani on 30 July said.
Many bodies had told them they had not had any reasons given to them by OT, "despite Darrin's assurance that they would".
They asked to see the overall strategy plan for 2024-25, and regional contract plans.
Jones told RNZ the process was flawed and rushed.
The joint letter said: "Darrin recognised that timeframes for Oranga Tamariki making decisions on contract discontinuation or changes have been truncated, and that decisions (and the issuing of new contracts) have come much later than Oranga Tamariki would have preferred."
The pair had also asked for, but not got, details of what transition services would be in place when existing contracts ended.
"We were very concerned to hear that ... Oranga Tamariki could not guarantee that transitional arrangements were in place, but hoped they would be," said the 30 July letter.
Achmad followed that up on 5 August, and Jones on 8 August, when he wrote again to Te Kani, saying: "I note that we are yet to receive a response or acknowledgement" of the 30 July letter.
Jones then issued a formal request for a response.
Today, Jones in an email thanked Darrin Haimoana for "a high-level summary of the approach" just received.
"Am I correct to assume that this is an interim response, and the information and documents requested in my letter is still to come?"
Jones he listed several more questions: "Why are so many contracts being ceased/reduced?" was one.
"Have the orgs with underutilisation been able to have a discussion with Oranga Tamariki?"
Achmad told RNZ she had flagged their concerns to Chhour, too.
"We need that to have assurance about how children, rangatahi and families are at the centre of these decisions," she said.
Jones told RNZ that first of all, it was about being able to understand what had been cut entirely and what reduced, and why.
"We're about to go into the Bay of Plenty. We need to understand what has changed and it helps us to understand what the impacts might be."
Nothing had been forthcoming to enable them to exercise their special oversight of the ministry, Jones said.
"Not for the questions that we're asking."
Oranga Tamariki has been approached for comment.