Former prime minister Helen Clark says while Israel has a right to defend itself it is not making a proportionate response at present. Photo: AFP / Robert Kitchin
A group of global leaders, including former New Zealand prime minister Helen Clark, say the collective punishment of civilians in Gaza as Israel targets Hamas is a clear violation of international law.
The group known as The Elders have issued a statement calling for Palestinian and Israeli lives to be valued equally in the global response to the crisis.
Hamas gunmen infiltrated southern Israel on 7 October killing at least 1400 people, most of them civilians, and taking another 222 people as hostages. The Hamas-run health ministry in Gaza says more than 6500 people have been killed since Israel retaliated with air and artillery strikes, according to the BBC.
On Wednesday UN secretary general Antonio Guterres said the Hamas attacks in southern Israel had "not happened in a vacuum" and said "there was no justification for the Hamas attacks".
Israel has threatened to deny visas to UN officials, and Israel's ambassador to the UN, Gilad Erdan has called for Guterres to resign, accusing him of "expressing an understanding for terrorism and murder".
Guterres said he was "shocked by misinterpretations" of his comments about Israel's bombardment and blockade of the Gaza strip.
Helen Clark told Morning Report she did not think the comments directed at Guterres were justified.
"And I think it's a distraction, because while the world's media are reporting a spat between the secretary-general and Israel, of course the bombardment goes on, collective punishment of the people of Gaza goes on.
"I think it's a distraction from what is happening with this terrible scale of human suffering there."
If Israel was to follow through with its threat to remove visas for UN officials trying to do humanitarian work in Gaza, Clark said it would be "very churlish and I think further inflame public opinion".
"Look, we've got two wrongs here and two wrongs don't make a right. The Hamas terrorist attack clearly must be condemned in the strongest terms, it was an atrocity, but to now see the people of Gaza as a whole subjected to this collective punishment is completely unacceptable and the stories we're hearing of the lack of food, water, sanitation, the deaths that are occurring, it is truly horrifying."
She said The Elders, of which she is a member, had issued a statement today referring to "clear violations of international humanitarian law".
"A whole population is being punished for the actions of the armed wing of Hamas.
"As I say, no reasonable person could do anything other than condemn the terror attacks carried out on Israel, they're horrifying and we can all think how terrifying that must have been for people who saw their families killed, family members abducted but that doesn't justify subjecting a whole population of 2 million people to a terrible bombardment and being deprived of the basic essentials of life."
"A whole population is being punished for the actions of the armed wing of Hamas" - Former New Zealand prime minister and former head of the UN's development programme Helen Clark
Asked how one reconciles Israel's right to defend itself and its insistence that it must take out Hamas, Clark said: "I think here the issue is that most people who accept that Israel has the right to defend itself but they should also accept that that needs to be proportionate and what we're seeing is not proportionate at all.
"Israel seems determined to destroy some 500km of tunnels, well they're all under buildings, many of them are residential. Are we going to see basically the residential areas of Gaza be completely levelled as they carry out this crusade?
"I think as the New Zealand government's statement said, there's no military solution to this and we need to get into a space where we can start addressing the root causes which is the denial of Palestinian statehood.
"So, the right thing to do is to call for the cessation of hostilities, to negotiate the release of hostages. I'd be very worried if I was a hostage, thinking a land invasion was about to come because you're a hostage there truly at the end of gunpoint.
"You let the humanitarian relief in and then there needs to be concerted efforts, hard as it is, to get back to a negotiating table for the Palestinian state.
"Unless we can get down that path, we will see these recurrent wars in Gaza and a lot more misery, suffering and death."
Some nations, including New Zealand, have called for a "humanitarian pause" in Gaza to allow life-saving supplies to be brought in for civilians and create "designated safe areas that are strictly off limits as targets".
Clark was asked if New Zealand should be asking for a hard ceasefire.
"I think if you're a Palestinian under bombardment in Gaza you don't really care what it's called, you just want it to stop. You know, the pause goes for long enough it amounts to a cessation of hostilities.
"I think what we need is the bombardment to stop, the negotiations to kick in for the hostages, the central supplies to come in and try and create that space for the regional actors from Eygpt and Jordan and the Gulf states working with the West, bring in China, China has links to Iran. This is a very complicated regional picture and we need to create the space for a dialogue that might lead to a final solution of this problem."
The UN has to be part of how this moves forward, Clark said.
"At the moment the role it's playing is mainly in the humanitarian relief area and of course providing the platform of the Security Council.
"I do think it was unfortunate that the United States vetoed the Brazilian resolution which called for a humanitarian pause and now the Security Council has become more polarised between those who want to use the word ceasefire and those who want to use the word pause so that's going round in circles and frankly we deserve better from the key security organisation of the United Nations."
New Zealand needs to continue to be a force for reason, a voice for humanitarian relief, calling for negotiations and for addressing the root causes, she said.
'I hope that New Zealand will recalculate its path' - Israeli Ambassador to NZ
Israeli Ambassador to New Zealand Ran Yaakoby says he is open to speaking with the New Zealand government about the Israel-Hamas conflict.
In his first interview since the attacks on Israel, Yaakoby has responded to comments by Clark that Israel's response was not proportionate.
He told Midday Report that Israel's response to the Hamas attacks on 7 October was proportionate.
"Proportionality means that one has the right to prevent the danger. What is the danger, proportionally, of 8000 rockets being shot in the last two weeks over Israel? What is the reaction proportionally in the eyes of Helen Clark, or The Elders to what Israel has experienced on October 7th?
"I think one needs to be a bit more modest when it screams out international law, proportionality or humanitarian issues. One needs to know the reality on the ground on both sides, and one needs to relate also to the suffering of the Israelis. Now 9 million Israelis [are] in bomb shelters because of the rocket barrage of Hamas and Hezbollah."
He said Israel was not punishing an entire population while questioning the sources for the number of deaths in Gaza.
"This is not a rugby game ... at war, we don't look for proportionality in numbers, A.
"B, the case is definitely for Israel and its right to self-defence, and we act according to the international law."
Israel had warned civilians in Gaza "in various ways" to move south of the enclave, he said, adding that aid trucks were also being allowed, thereby following international law.
"Hamas has bombed the Erez crossing on the Israeli side. The only way to enter now into Gaza is over tanks. The only way into Gaza is at the south, on the Rafah passage through Egypt and everything that is with good intent and is checked and is not intended [for] Hamas, but for the civil population invited to the south will be permitted as long as it is within the list of permitted items, which is food, medication, water."
Listen to the interview with Israeli Ambassador to New Zealand Ran Yaakoby
Yaakoby said he had been in contact with MFAT, but the caretaker government had not been in contact with him.
"Unfortunately, none of the caretaker ministers have bothered to call the embassy, either in sympathy or to have a straightforward discussion."
He welcomed the possibility of talks with the government.
"I'm looking forward [to] the next government that can also make decisions and I hope that New Zealand will recalculate its path."
He said New Zealand had been criticising the situation, however, it did not have an embassy in Israel but it did have one in Tehran, Iran's capital.
New Zealand has called for a "humanitarian pause" in Gaza and for the creation of "designated safe areas that are strictly off limits as targets".
To that, Yaakoby said: "There are humanitarian corridors to the south. There are regions that are recognised both by Egypt and Israel as humanitarian regions. This is beyond the Gaza Wadi or the Gaza River, and this is for the purpose of humanitarian relief.
"North of Gaza where Hamas is hiding, sheltering itself behind 220 or maybe more human shields is not a safe zone. I will advise any citizen who has nothing to do with the terror organisations to leave the area because we are coming."