What boys think about periods Photo: Quin Tauetau/RNZ
Endometriosis - a condition that can cause painful and heavy periods - essentially forced Lali to be open about her periods.
"I come from a culture where there's a lot of shame around that, because I'm Brazilian, and it's very much like a hush-hush kind of event. So when I got my first period, I just hid it and didn't tell anyone for the first year," said the 19-year-old from Hamilton.
But with burdensome symptoms of endometriosis - Lali once bled for 20 months non-stop - she began to be open about what she was going through, including to her four brothers and male friends.
"Because it's such a big part of my life, it's just something I talk about with them a lot, and they understand there will be times when I'm more stressed because I'm on my period. It's not uncommon for them to arrange a hangout to make me more comfortable."
It could mean staying in for a movie night with chocolate if she was having a heavy flow or cramps.
That was an anecdote Lali shared during an RNZ focus group on periods with six New Zealand teenage girls. They spoke about how they hated tampons, prefer to use period underwear - if they can afford them - and a failure of the education system and parents to teach holistically about periods.
A menstrual cup, part of a new generation of reusable period products. Photo: RNZ
There has been a revolution in period products in the past decade and progress in language about periods. This includes major New Zealand supermarket chain Woolworths switching its store signage from 'feminine hygiene' to the more human-sounding 'period care'.
However, the attitudes of boys and men still have one of the greatest impacts on period stigma. And many in the group spoke about a positive shift, despite feeling the old-school period awkwardness between males and females.
A generational shift
"My dad and my older brother, they both would burst out and be like 'agh, don't even tell me about it.' But my younger brothers who are six would probably be curious. They are very understanding about it, growing up in a different generation. My mum has been very different with how she is growing them up to understand women way better," said 19-year-old Maia, from Hamilton.
Thirteen-year-old Jane from Wellington, often feels embarrassed when her brother's friends come over and her period underwear is out on the drying rack. But her brother, who is 14, seems to get it, bringing her wheat packs and drinks when she has cramps.
"My dad is a little bit different. He's pretty good, but some things are a product of his generation. I try to teach him a bit, that not every upset emotion is because of hormones..." she said.
Talking about periods with boys
Like Lali, she was more or less forced into sharing about her period with a male friend because of cramps.
"I'm walking home with one of my friends, who is a boy, and I'm just doubled over and it hurts a lot. I'm also really heat-sensitive so I get super nauseous during this time. It's the worst. And I have to explain 'hey, I'm not actually dying right now, but it feels like it. I'm just having really bad cramps'... he was like 'oh no, that really sucks' but there was definitely the awkwardness there," she said.
Despite some of the positive experiences reported by the majority of teens in the focus group, a 2019 thesis on how New Zealand teens discuss periods found negative stereotyping from male peers. Girls reported boys viewing periods as 'disgusting' and some said they kept their periods secret to avoid teasing.
Photo: RNZ
Period education, whether it comes from schools or parents, often fails boys as well as girls. A lot of men report first encountering periods through a 'mysterious incident' similar to what Jane described. Sexual and romantic partners have often provided males with a deeper knowledge of periods, adding to what they learned from their mums.
"If we're talking about it in class, it's more like the girls are looking at the ceiling - anywhere - and I think most of the boys in my class caught on. I don't really think they are bothered too much on focusing on the girls in our class's periods. I don't think they care too much, but I also feel embarrassed when someone mentions [periods]," 13-year-old Eleanor from Auckland said.
Many of the teens spoke about being embarrassed with male and female peers when it came to their periods. That feeling conflicted with their belief that periods are an organic part of life that should be celebrated.
"There's still just a massive amount of stigma that's around everywhere. I think we need to accept that it's a natural thing that's happening. It's not weird or awkward, and just realise the damage that you can do by making it seem like that," Jane said.