They came fourth

There are often just centimetres or seconds between a medal and fourth place, but some fourths are different to others 

If sprinter Zoe Hobbs lines up in the 100 metre final in Paris this year, her Olympic campaign will have been a success. Even if she doesn't climb the podium, her presence will be as good as gold. 

But if Dame Lisa Carrington comes fourth, the country will record it as a failure - New Zealand's most successful athlete won't be allowed an 'off' day. 

New Zealand athletes or teams have finished fourth 51 times in an Olympic final. 

Today on The Detail we talk to two Olympic athletes who've made it to the pinnacle of their sports, collected medals at Commonwealth Games and accolades elsewhere, but who fell just short of the podium on the biggest stage. 

Shot putter and discus thrower Val Young came fourth at both the Rome and Tokyo Olympics, in 1960 and 1964. (And fifth at the 1956 Melbourne games.) 

She was there in the infield, jumping and skipping with excitement as New Zealand experienced its golden hour - Peter Snell and Murray Halberg collecting gold medals within an hour of each other. 

Her shot putting event was on at the same time. 

She was ahead going into the last round but American Earlene Brown snuck in by an inch. Gold and silver went to Soviet and East German athletes in the days before the widespread drug-taking of those nations was exposed.  In Tokyo all three athletes were from behind the Iron Curtain, so it's been speculated that if they had been clean games, Young would hold gold and silver medals. 

"You never know do you?" she says. But she doesn't think about it. 

"It's a long time ago, and when I talk about that day it's just the way it was. That's sport. That's life." 

But she does have strong memories of that 'golden hour' in Rome. 

"Looking back, it was a very special day for the New Zealand athletes," she says. 

"Getting into a final of an Olympic event is special. You get a plaque to say that's where your position was ... but it's not quite the same as getting up the steps."  

She didn't go to the after-party for Snell and Halberg - "I was a bit sad I suppose." 

Young didn't have long to mope as she had another event the next day. 

And she wouldn't trade her fistful of Commonwealth Games medals for an Olympic gong, saying they're her history. 

Former Black Stick and four-time Olympian Kayla Whitelock, NZOM, will be in Paris as part of her role with the NZOC Athletes' Commission, looking after Oceania athletes. 

She was the team's captain at both the London and Rio games, where they came fourth - but the circumstances are quite different. 

Heading into the 2012 Games they ranked 12th in the world, having come last in Beijing - public expectations were low - but under new coach Mark Hagar they were starting to record some good wins against tough opposition. 

For the first time ever for a New Zealand women's hockey team, they made the final four, only to lose in heartbreaking style to the eventual victors, the Netherlands, and lose the bronze medal match to the home team, Team GB. 

Redemption was on the cards for Rio, but it wasn't to be. 

Now carrying the weight of expectations, they once again lost the bronze medal match. 

"Once time's settled, you reflect back on it and kind of go 'well that was pretty good', but shit how close were we."

Whitelock tells The Detail what she's learned, and what they should have done differently.

This Olympics there won't be a women's Black Sticks team - they failed to qualify, the first time missing from the Games in 28 years. 

"I'm sure a lot of the players who haven't qualified would love to be there. You know, I look back on Beijing where we came last and I was devastated after that, but I was still there. We were still in the top 12. To not be going is going to be pretty tough." 

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