In the latest episode of 30' with Guyon Espiner Labour's Barbara Edmonds gives the clearest indication yet of how a reset Labour government would tackle the big economic challenges, and defends the "good things that happened" because of Rogernomics.
Barbara Edmonds, Labour's finance spokeswoman, said it was "irresponsible of both the government and political parties" to shut down conversation around a capital gains tax (CGT).
New Zealand is one of only three countries in the 38-member Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) that doesn't have some form of tax on the sale of capital gains, such as investment properties.
Under successive leaders, Labour has ruled out a capital gains tax, but after defeat at last year's election it is again considering the policy.
Edmonds said she does not believe Labour has ever lacked the courage to campaign on a CGT, despite never implementing any such tax when in power.
"The question is, really, to National. Why are they so afraid of it, given the shift on the ground that is currently happening? When the ANZ CE was on your show and talked about [a CGT], their first point of attack was to attack her."
A poll taken for the New Zealand Herald's Mood of the Boardroom survey showed support among business leaders for a CGT at 77 percent.
Both the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and the OECD have recommended New Zealand implement some form of CGT, to address economic inequality and housing affordability.
"We need to have this conversation, we need our senior business leaders to help New Zealand as a public be informed about what a capital gains tax or what this whole discussion around structural reform looks like," Edmonds, who is a tax expert, said.
"To shut it down, though, I think that's irresponsible of both the government and of political parties, because it comes down to informing people of what the different options are."
* 30 with Guyon Espiner comes out every week on RNZ, Youtube, TVNZ+ and wherever you get your podcasts.
Edmonds was a guest on RNZ's multimedia show, 30' with Guyon Espiner Photo: RNZ
In the in depth interview with Guyon Espiner, Barbara Edmonds is also asked about her upbringing, and the tragedy of spending her fifth birthday burying her mum, who died of cancer in 1986.
"My mum died at the age of 35. Dad was 40, a widower with four children, 11 and under."
Her father left his job and went on the Domestic Purposes Benefit (DPB) to raise his young family alone.
"It was tough for dad, but he did the best that he could. He was the eldest of grandpa's 19 children, and he's the only one that got an education past year 10, past fourth form. So he knew the value of education, and that's why he and mum came to New Zealand in the first place."
Edmonds' parents emigrated from Samoa in the 1970s. She credits past Labour government social policies with helping her family get through those tough times.
'Some good things' came from Rogernomics
A self-described pragmatist, Edmonds also defended the economic reforms of Sir Roger Douglas, acknowledging there may be members of Labour today who "will frown upon" her for doing so.
Under the Labour government in the 1980s, "Rogernomics" removed government controls on prices, privatised government-owned companies and floated the New Zealand dollar on the world market.
While the changes boosted growth, at the time the cuts to the public sector also had a detrimental effect on jobs and social services.
"The main thing that I acknowledge with Roger Douglas is there's no point in us sort of being shameful of our past. You can't dismiss that it happened, and that there have been some good things that have happened as a result of that - you know, with the result of our New Zealand dollar being floated to help our export markets, which then creates jobs. And that's fundamentally a Labour value, around work and jobs.
"I'm not saying everything that he did was good, but I'm saying that it is part of our Labour history, and we need to look forward from there."
As Labour's finance spokesperson, Edmonds isn't shying away from the need to make big calls on the economy if she makes it into government.
"I feel like we're at another crunch point where, given those huge fiscal challenges coming down the road, it may be time for another structural reform. And that's sort of coming out a bit through the discussion that we're having, both as a party, but also what the private sector are saying as well.
"Why is it fair that the bus driver, the security guard, the trolley person that works at your local supermarket, why is it that every dollar of their wage and salary is taxed, but a person that disposes of a capital asset and makes income from it isn't?
"I think the New Zealand public are asking us, and rightfully so, they want to see what's the alternative that Labour will give."
When asked at the end of the interview what the Barbara Edmonds of today would say to herself on her fifth birthday, she became emotional.
"That five year old self that just lost her mum? I think that everything's gonna be okay.
"I want everything to be okay for my kids. And the reason why I got into politics was there's a lot of kids that don't have opportunities like my kids.
"So it makes me a bit emotional, but that's why I'm here."
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