Parliament receives and considers an extraordinary array of petitions every year. This week the Justice Committee alone considered three; one asking for changes to off-licence liquor rules, one regarding free speech and one asking Parliament to ban conversion therapy.
The petitioner for the latter, Max Tweedie, described it as “any form of treatment which aims to change a person’s sexual orientation or gender identity”.
Max Tweedie and Teri O'Neill speak to the Justice Committee about a petition on behalf of Young Labour and the Young Greens asking for a ban on gay conversion therapy. Photo: VNP / Phil Smith
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There are numerous people offering conversion therapy in New Zealand, something highlighted in a 2018 TVNZ documentary which sparked Max Tweedie’s petition on behalf of Young Labour and Young Greens.
The petition supports a proposed member's bill in the name of Labour MP Marja Lubeck - also seeking to ban conversion therapy.
It’s referred to as a therapy but Mr Tweedie pointed out: “The New Zealand Association of counsellors and social workers believe that conversion therapy should be banned.”
The reasons he gave for the ban were that it was “fundamentally harmful” and “rests on two harmful assumptions. The first is that having a diverse sexual orientation or gender identity is a choice and can be changed. The second is that possessing such qualities is wrong and therefore should be changed.”
A sign for a select committee room at Parliament shows what the committee is working on. Photo: VNP / Daniela Maoate-Cox
MPs usually question petitioners after they’ve laid out their arguments, and have them defend their position. In this case, the MPs particularly wanted to know how you could draft a law that didn’t infringe on religious freedom.
Nick Smith, National MP for Nelson, was nervous of bans on "weird" religious practices whether or not they caused harm.
“You know, there’s practices like exorcisms that are done widespread in New Zealand. They’re nuts, they’re harmful, I’ve got no time for them. But do I want to make it criminal for people to do them? No, I don’t. I say that that is their freedom to do all sorts of weird s--t that I don’t necessarily like. Even though, I have had constituency cases of psychologists and others come to me and say ‘what these guys are doing is really harmful for people'."
Committees are often quite gentle with petitioners, especially those with a deeply personal story to tell. But a petitioner with legal training or good political nous might be pushed to find ways through the slings and arrows of legal drafting.
Duncan Webb listens to Max's argument. Photo: VNP / Phil Smith
Labour MP Duncan Webb pushed Mr Tweedie to suggest how you balance the conflicting rights of the various communities. Mr Tweedie responded that the balance had to be based on harm.
“The New Zealand legislative framework legislates based on harm. That religious freedom is not absolute. When the bible says that we [should] stone homosexuals to death, we obviously don’t allow that, because of harm. So I would draw that back to the studies that say that conversion therapy actually causes demonstrable harm for people that are subjected to it. That it causes ... depression, anxiety and in the worst cases suicide ... I think it is in the public interest to remove it as an option for people.”
After hearing evidence from petitioners and others, committees report back to the House on whether it should act.
Ms Lubeck’s bill, like all members' bills, waits on the luck of being drawn from the biscuit tin in the ballot.