Waitangi Tribunal claimants who have been through the state care system say they have been shut out of Oranga Tamariki reform talks, but their concerns are being labelled a distraction by the ministerial advisory group chair.
Dr Alison Green is a former state ward and is completing her post-doctoral research at the University of Saskatchewan in Canada. Photo: RNZ / Patrice Allen
The Waitangi Tribunal recommended earlier this year that an independent Māori authority be set up to prevent tamariki Māori going into state care, but the idea has been parked while a Ministerial Advisory Board, chaired by Matthew Tūkaki, conducts its own investigation into Oranga Tamariki.
Claimant Dr Alison Green, of Ngāti Awa, Ngāti Ranginui and Ngāiterangi, was placed into another family in 1958. She said she had barely had a say in the ministerial investigation.
"We had an hour of Matt Tūkaki telling us what he was doing but not in much detail, he didn't have any questions to ask us," Green said.
"It beggars belief that the tribunal that sat for 18 months over this claim with urgency, that that would be overlooked."
In an email to the lead claimants, Minister of Children Kelvin Davis said he would not be having further in-person hui with them about the tribunal recommendations.
He had already heard from two of the claimants in May and advised that any further matters should be raised with the ministerial advisory group or Oranga Tamariki directly.
"I think it's dismissive and insulting of our expertise. We're survivors but we're also researchers, some of us are experts on this topic area and we're being sidelined," said Dr Green, who is completing her post-doctoral research at the University of Saskatchewan in Canada.
Her research compares the policy for removing indigenous children from their families in Canada and New Zealand.
She said those who led the Whānau Ora inquiry into the uplifts of tamariki Māori, such as Merepeka Raukawa-Tait, Dame Tariana Turia and Lady Tūreiti Moxon, were calling themselves a "governance group", and being given more opportunity to provide input on the ministerial inquiry.
Dr Rawiri Waretini-Karena, who was abused in state care and has gone on to do a PhD on Māori experiences of historical intergenerational trauma, agreed they were being sidelined.
"So they're going off and trying to fix this problem but the reality is, what we're saying is [they] don't know what the problem actually is, and Matthew Tūkaki is saying 'we've been all around the country' and yet [he] still missed what was happening in Oranga Tamariki residential care - how?"
Ministerial advisory group chair Matthew Tūkaki. Photo: RNZ / YouTube
Advisory group chair Tūkaki said it was untrue Waitangi Tribunal claimants with lived experience had been given very limited time to provide feedback.
"Those voices of lived experience, particularly those who now hold doctorates, like Rawiri and Alison - and by the way, I completely respect the mahi and the work and the research that they've done - we will be recommending the establishment of a lived experience network to guide the next piece of work."
The claimants were making his job difficult, he said.
"We are trying very hard and at lightning speed to find a way forward and quite frankly, it doesn't help when we've got a group of people that are doing a lot to distract us from that job.
"It's not just one group of voices, and I know people will say, 'my voice is more important than somebody else's', everybody's voice is important and quite often what we hear is from whānau who aren't shouting the loudest, who aren't going online or are in the media every day."
Davis said he did not recognise any "governance group" and right now his "focus is on the children under his care at present".
He also said he was not pushing ahead with Waitangi Tribunal recommendations until he had considered the ministerial advisory group report, due in August.
"Any sort of anxieties between claimants themselves, that's for them to sort out it's not for the minister to sort out," Davis said.