In the latest episode of 30' with Guyon Espiner, former SAS soldier Jamie Pennell opens up on his thoughts on the Taliban returning to power after the US military withdrawal in 2021, and how he's still surprised to be alive.
A rooftop firefight during the 2011 siege of the Kabul Intercontinental Hotel became a defining moment of New Zealand's role in the US-led war in Afghanistan. It was also a defining moment in Jamie Pennell's life.
NZSAS operatives, coordinating with Afghan Crisis Response Unit personnel, were instrumental in clearing the building and rescuing civilians trapped inside, after Taliban insurgents attacked the hotel and began killing hostages.
Pennell, who was among the SAS soldiers who battled their way to the top of the building, received the Gallantry Star for his leading role in rescuing the hostages.
Since returning to power in 2021, immediately after US forces withdrew, the Taliban has reimposed a fundamentalist interpretation of Sharia-based law, including flogging, amputations and public executions.
Brutal restrictions have been placed on women's rights to education, dress, movement and participation in the workforce.
After seeing the Taliban return to power so quickly, Pennell believes that it "would take hundreds and hundreds of years" for military intervention to make lasting positive change.
"And that's never going to happen. We don't have the economy for it. Public opinion's going to sway the government to make sure we're not there for that long."
The US entered Afghanistan in October 2001, in response to the terrorist attack on the World Trade Centre on 11 September that year.
New Zealand joined the coalition soon after. The NZSAS deployed to Afghanistan intermittently for high-priority missions, often in support of counter-terrorism operations.
Former SAS soldier Jamie Pennell was a guest on RNZ's multimedia show, 30' with Guyon Espiner Photo: RNZ / Richard Larsen
In the uncut, half-hour interview, Pennell told Espiner he took some comfort in the fact that during the 20-year US-led occupation, many ordinary Afghan citizens would have taken advantage of the opportunities afforded by Kabul's coalition-backed leaders: "Got themselves educated, left and got themselves to another country if they could - I can't speak for everyone - and got themselves a better life."
But thousands of Afghans who worked closely with coalition forces, including the NZSAS, were left at the mercy of the Taliban when coalition forces retreated.
While efforts were made to evacuate some, tens of thousands were left behind due to the chaotic nature of the withdrawal.
Pennell, who left the SAS in 2013, worked with about 200 Crisis Response Unit personnel and admits that finding out recently that only 70 made it out "hit me pretty hard".
"But I can't dwell on it," he says.
* 30 with Guyon Espiner comes out every week on RNZ, Youtube, TVNZ+ and wherever you get your podcasts.
Pennell says he cannot confirm reports that the New Zealand Defence Force is struggling due to lack of adequate resourcing, and was offering $30,000 dollars to retain SAS soldiers.
"I've been out for a while."
He was in touch with the SAS as recently as last year, though, and says "it looks pretty good".
"It's 'equip the man, not man the equipment.'"
In the interview, Espiner asks Pennell if he's still surprised to be alive, 13 years on from the Intercontinental Hotel siege.
"Yep. I mean, it was a big night."
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