In the latest episode of 30' with Guyon Espiner China's ambassador to New Zealand Wang Xiaolong warned of the political fallout if New Zealand were to join the AUKUS pact, and addressed political interference allegations.
A decision by New Zealand to join AUKUS would 'inevitably" have negative consequences for the country's relationship with China, Chinese ambassador Wang Xiaolong says.
In a wide-ranging interview on 30' With Guyon Espiner, Dr Wang expressed significant concerns about the trilateral security pact between Australia, the United States, and the United Kingdom.
"AUKUS entails the transfer of weapons-grade nuclear materials from a nuclear weapon state to a non-nuclear weapon state for the first time in history," Dr. Wang said. "If that is allowed to happen, it will raise serious questions about the integrity of the [nuclear] Non-Proliferation Treaty regime."
New Zealand has been considering whether join 'Pillar Two' of the initiative, focusing on non-nuclear military technology-sharing.
Beyond nuclear concerns, Wang called AUKUS the product of a "zero-sum Cold War mentality".
The pact would "lead almost inevitably to greater divisiveness, confrontation, or even conflict and war", he said.
"Whether New Zealand will want to relate to AUKUS is a call to be made by New Zealand.
"We hope that when weighing up this all-important decision, New Zealand will take into account its own long-term best interests, the potential implications for regional security, and the impact on the relationship between China and New Zealand."
Watch the full episode
When asked about the potential economic consequences if New Zealand joined Pillar Two, Dr Wang said: "Inevitably, that will have a negative impact on the relationship.
"Trust ... is one of the most precious but also one of the most fragile commodities. It may take years to build up; it just might take seconds to be destroyed."
"Nothing happens in a vacuum, and nothing can be taken for granted," Wang said.
"We would advise against anything that threatens to erode that very important trust between us."
His remarks follow comments from Prime Minister Christopher Luxon, who said earlier this month that any potential response from China, should New Zealand sign up to AUKUS, was "not a consideration for us".
You can read the Simplified Chinese translation of this story here.
"Whether New Zealand gets involved or not is a conversation we continue to explore and get into," Luxon said then.
But Wang's comments reflect the delicate balancing act New Zealand faces as it seeks to maintain its longstanding trade partnership with China while navigating an increasingly fraught geopolitical environment.
* 30 with Guyon Espiner comes out every week on RNZ, Youtube, TVNZ+ and wherever you get your podcasts.
Denial of political interference
Elsewhere in the interview, Dr Wang rejected accusations that China sought to control or monitor Chinese expatriates in New Zealand or to undermine New Zealand's democracy.
"We never interfere in the internal affairs of other countries. These claims are baseless and false," he said.
He said other countries - not China - were guilty of interference.
"When it comes to foreign interference, we know who the king interferer is.
NZ joining AUKUS could shatter trust with China - Ambassador
"They launch disinformation warfare, carry out comprehensive surveillance operations, and instigate chaos or even revolutions," he said.
Pressed to name the country he was talking about, Dr. Wang deflected, saying, "You know as well as I do."
He said allegations of political interference had led to unfair targeting of New Zealand's Chinese community.
"Most [Chinese expatriates] came to New Zealand because they think it's an open, inclusive, and welcoming society. But now, there's nervousness and fear. They're worried things are taking a disappointing turn."
Comments 'not helpful' - Labour
Labour leader Chris Hipkins told Morning Report New Zealand's foreign policy should be decided in the best interest of New Zealand.
"It shouldn't be determined in Beijing, it shouldn't be determined in Washington, it shouldn't be determined in Canberra.
"I don't think they're particularly helpful," Hipkins said of the ambassador's comments.
"I don't think frankly China should be making any threats like that."
However, Hipkins described himself as an Aukus "sceptic".
Labour leader on NZ - China relations
He said he didn't believe signing up to the agreement would be beneficial for New Zealand.
"At this point... I haven't seen anything to suggest that Aukus would actually be in New Zealand's best interest."
Trump's return to the White House
Dr Wang also addressed the implications of Donald Trump returning to the US presidency next year for global trade.
"Whoever America elects as its president is a choice, obviously, for the American people, and we respect that choice," he said.
Beijing wished to maintain a "mutually respectful, peacefully coexisting, and cooperative" relationship with the US.
When asked about Trump's campaign rhetoric regarding significant tariffs - potentially as high as 60 percent - on Chinese imports, Wang acknowledged the economic challenges such measures could pose but said China was committed to continued dialogue.
Bilateral trade had been "mutually beneficial" over the last 40 years but China would take "resolute and determined measures" to protect its interests if necessary, he said.
He attributed the country's economic growth to its openness and integration with global markets and acknowledged the irony of a socialist Chinese economy championing free trade while a historically capitalist United States leaned toward protectionism: "It's a reversal of roles, in a way."
During the interview, Dr Wang referred to China's defence spending as being about 3 percent of the country's GDP.
Following the interview the Chinese Embassy contacted RNZ to say this was "a slip of the tongue" and the figure was less than 2 percent.
Ambassador Wang Xiaolong's full, uncut interview on 30' With Guyon Espiner, recorded on 20 November 2024, is available to stream now.
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